ASEF Podcast (ENG): Simon DeDeo [Episode #57]

In this episode of the ASEF Podcast, host Tanja Janko welcomes Simon DeDeo, Professor of Social and Decision Sciences at Carnegie Mellon University, External Professor at the Santa Fe Institute, and complexity scientist whose work spans physics, mathematics, cognition, culture, and social systems. Originally trained as a theoretical astrophysicist, DeDeo has become one of the leading voices exploring how humans create knowledge, meaning, and understanding across different domains of inquiry.

The conversation begins with DeDeo’s intellectual journey from theoretical physics to complexity science and the social sciences. Reflecting on broader trends within academia, he explains why many physicists have become interested in studying complex systems that extend beyond the physical world, including language, culture, institutions, and human behavior. This transition opens a discussion about the nature of reality itself and whether different layers of reality—from physical laws to perception, social norms, and symbolic systems—can be understood through a common scientific framework.

A central theme of the episode is mathematics and its unique role in human knowledge. DeDeo explores why mathematicians across different cultures often discover the same abstract structures and concepts, raising questions about whether mathematics is invented or discovered. The discussion examines the remarkable universality of mathematical ideas and the extent to which mathematical knowledge emerges from the interaction between human cognition and shared social practices.

The conversation then turns to mathematical proof, one of humanity’s most powerful intellectual inventions. DeDeo explains how proofs allow knowledge to be transmitted, verified, and preserved across generations, creating a level of certainty rarely found in other disciplines. At the same time, he emphasizes that mathematical truth is not established by individuals alone, but through communities of researchers who collectively evaluate, interpret, and build trust in mathematical arguments.

A particularly thought-provoking part of the episode focuses on artificial intelligence and its potential impact on mathematics. As AI systems become increasingly capable of generating sophisticated proofs and solving complex problems, DeDeo considers how the role of mathematicians may evolve. Rather than concentrating primarily on producing proofs, future mathematicians may spend more time understanding, interpreting, and validating results generated through collaboration with intelligent systems.

Beyond mathematics, the discussion broadens to the emergence of social norms, institutions, and shared meanings. Drawing on insights from complexity science, DeDeo reflects on how large-scale human achievements become possible through collective action and knowledge creation. From scientific discoveries to collaborative projects such as Wikipedia, these achievements reveal the extraordinary capacity of human societies to generate, preserve, and expand knowledge over time.

In the final part of the episode, DeDeo offers a broader perspective on the future of human understanding in an age increasingly shaped by artificial intelligence. The conversation invites listeners to consider not only how knowledge is created, but also how communities establish trust, meaning, and shared understanding in a rapidly changing world.